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- Thread starterMoon Palace
- Start dateJan 31, 2008
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Moon Palace
Senior Member
Lyon
French
- Jan 31, 2008
- #1
Hello everyone,
Can someone explain to me why we say
Secretary General Ban Ki-Moon
but
The General Secretary of the Labour Party?
What accounts for the word order of these two?
Thanks in advance.
sdgraham
Senior Member
Oregon, USA
USA English
- Jan 31, 2008
- #2
Generally speaking (or speaking generally) it's the whim of the organization that establishes the name of the job or the title.
If you look up both terms in Wikipedia, you will see a substantial discussion.
Yours truly (or truly yours)
sokol
Senior Member
Vienna, Austria; raised in Upper Austria
Austrian (as opposed to Australian)
- Jan 31, 2008
- #3
Speaking generally, these are conflicting word orders of both mothers (or fathers) of the English language, the Romance and the Germanic branch of languages. Generally speaking, in Germanic it would General Secretary [and in German this is indeed the case, even for the UN Secretary General], while with Romanic languages Secretery General usually would be preferred.
However in this case, it seems that, generally, Secretary General is preferred rather than General Secretary for most of the prestigious organisations: probably because in English most of the times there is more 'status' attributet to words going back to Romanic roots.
(Check out the terms for food for that - as long as it's running around on two or four feet the Germanic term is applied, but as soon as it is served it changes its name to the Romanic root.)
Loob
Senior Member
English UK
- Feb 1, 2008
- #4
I haven't read the Wiki discussions.
But the connotations, for me, are:
Secretary General: international organisation; important personage
General Secretary: national organisation especially Trade Union; down-to-earth.
sdgraham
Senior Member
Oregon, USA
USA English
- Feb 1, 2008
- #5
Loob said:
General Secretary: national organisation especially Trade Union; down-to-earth.
Note that Nikita Khruschev and Mikhail Gorbachev held the post of general secretary of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union
(I'm not sure what that illustrates as anything other than somebody whose title was "general secretary.")
Moon Palace
Senior Member
Lyon
French
- Feb 1, 2008
- #6
Thank you all for your help.
And Loob, you could have written the article on Wiki , because it sums up this way:
Secretary General = international organisations
General Secretary = national organisations, unions, associations, churches...
R
rich7
Senior Member
caracas
Venezuela español
- Dec 2, 2015
- #7
Not only international organizations. As it is the case with notary public.
P
Parla
Member Emeritus
New York City
English - US
- Dec 3, 2015
- #8
Moon Palace, don't leap to conclusions or try to create "rules" for English usages where there are none. The titles of officials of groups—whether they are international organizations, political parties, labor unions, social clubs, or anything else—are up to the groups. There are no rules.
A
afredchb
Senior Member
Chinese
- Jun 4, 2025
- #9
If you once studied spanish, perhaps you will understand the difference. In the context of this language normally one should put the adjective behind the noun, so the group represents the original meaning. When one puts the adjective before the noun, sometimes it could get the new meaning unlike the original explanation of the word.
bearded
Senior Member
Milano / Bologna (Northern Italy)
Standard Italian
- Jun 4, 2025
- #10
The question has been asked and answered several times before in this forum.
By using the 'Search' feature you can find the following useful page:
Search results for query: Secretary General
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