secretary general vs general secretary (2025)

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  • English Only
  • Thread starterMoon Palace
  • Start dateJan 31, 2008
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Moon Palace

Senior Member

Lyon

French

  • Jan 31, 2008
  • #1

Hello everyone,
Can someone explain to me why we say
Secretary General Ban Ki-Moon
but
The General Secretary of the Labour Party?

What accounts for the word order of these two?
Thanks in advance.

  • sdgraham

    Senior Member

    Oregon, USA

    USA English

    • Jan 31, 2008
    • #2

    Generally speaking (or speaking generally) it's the whim of the organization that establishes the name of the job or the title.

    If you look up both terms in Wikipedia, you will see a substantial discussion.

    Yours truly (or truly yours)

    sokol

    Senior Member

    Vienna, Austria; raised in Upper Austria

    Austrian (as opposed to Australian)

    • Jan 31, 2008
    • #3

    Speaking generally, these are conflicting word orders of both mothers (or fathers) of the English language, the Romance and the Germanic branch of languages. Generally speaking, in Germanic it would General Secretary [and in German this is indeed the case, even for the UN Secretary General], while with Romanic languages Secretery General usually would be preferred.

    However in this case, it seems that, generally, Secretary General is preferred rather than General Secretary for most of the prestigious organisations: probably because in English most of the times there is more 'status' attributet to words going back to Romanic roots.
    (Check out the terms for food for that - as long as it's running around on two or four feet the Germanic term is applied, but as soon as it is served it changes its name to the Romanic root.)

    Loob

    Senior Member

    English UK

    • Feb 1, 2008
    • #4

    I haven't read the Wiki discussions.

    But the connotations, for me, are:

    Secretary General: international organisation; important personage

    General Secretary: national organisation especially Trade Union; down-to-earth.

    sdgraham

    Senior Member

    Oregon, USA

    USA English

    • Feb 1, 2008
    • #5

    Loob said:

    General Secretary: national organisation especially Trade Union; down-to-earth.

    Note that Nikita Khruschev and Mikhail Gorbachev held the post of general secretary of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union

    (I'm not sure what that illustrates as anything other than somebody whose title was "general secretary.")

    Moon Palace

    Senior Member

    Lyon

    French

    • Feb 1, 2008
    • #6

    Thank you all for your help. secretary general vs general secretary (7)
    And Loob, you could have written the article on Wiki secretary general vs general secretary (8), because it sums up this way:
    Secretary General = international organisations
    General Secretary = national organisations, unions, associations, churches...

    R

    rich7

    Senior Member

    caracas

    Venezuela español

    • Dec 2, 2015
    • #7

    Not only international organizations. As it is the case with notary public.

    P

    Parla

    Member Emeritus

    New York City

    English - US

    • Dec 3, 2015
    • #8

    Moon Palace, don't leap to conclusions or try to create "rules" for English usages where there are none. The titles of officials of groups—whether they are international organizations, political parties, labor unions, social clubs, or anything else—are up to the groups. There are no rules.

    A

    afredchb

    Senior Member

    Chinese

    • Jun 4, 2025
    • #9

    If you once studied spanish, perhaps you will understand the difference. In the context of this language normally one should put the adjective behind the noun, so the group represents the original meaning. When one puts the adjective before the noun, sometimes it could get the new meaning unlike the original explanation of the word.

    bearded

    Senior Member

    Milano / Bologna (Northern Italy)

    Standard Italian

    • Jun 4, 2025
    • #10

    The question has been asked and answered several times before in this forum.
    By using the 'Search' feature you can find the following useful page:
    Search results for query: Secretary General

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